INTERVIEW: Chuck D.
- Lang Whitaker
When I was in seventh grade, I attended my first concert: EPMD, Run-DMC, Public Enemy, and DJ Jazzy Jeff & the Fresh Prince. Though I had a great time, the thing that stuck out in my mind was the image of Public Enemy frontman Chuck D. stalking around the stage, spitting lyrical fury. When rap music was popularized in the '80s, Chuck D. and PE were right there, providing a socio-political backbone to a music form that largely celebrated partying and dancing. And as we zoom into the year 2000, Public Enemy is still there, leading hip-hop's Internet revolution.
I first interviewed Chuck D. a few years ago. As fellow Atlanta, Ga., residents, we hit it off, and we now keep in constant contact. While Chuck is considerably softer and kinder in person than on record or stage, there is still an edge to his personality, as if at any moment he could lash out and begin preaching about fighting the power or not believing the hype. Even while sitting next to him on an overstuffed couch or gretting him with a hug, Chuck engenders a sense of caution.
After a recent show on PE's fortieth world tour, I recently sat down with Chuck D. and picked his always-controversial brain.
CONSUMABLE ONLINE: Chuck, I was talking to someone the other day, and when I told them I knew you they said 'Oh, isn't he an anti-Semite?'
CHUCK: (laughs) Oh, man. Where was that person from, a cave? You sure they weren't from a cave?
C.O.: Why would someone say that about you?
CHUCK: (sighs) I don't know. There's a lot of misinformation, and if they're subjected to only reading the headlines of a situation, then they're going to pass an opinion that's based on a fallacy or a non-fact.
C.O.: (laughs) Of course, you were accused of anti-Semitism by the Anti-Defamation League for your song "Swindler's Lust." I read somewhere on the Internet where they asked you about that situation, and if "Swindler's Lust" was anti-Semitic, and you said "They need to look into it for themselves."
CHUCK: Exactly. Anyone that's listened to the song can clearly recognize that I'm talking about my relationship with Polygram Records and Def Jam Records in 1998, and in retrospective, going back to '93 and '92. And 'Swindler's Lust,' if they really think about 'Schindler's List,' they know that it was Spielberg's take on a guy that was dealing with the artistry of freedom of people in Nazi Germany. So, why couldn't I use that as an inspiration. I think it could be considered highly racist that I wouldn't be able to touch that area and be inspired by that area without people passing judgement. That's truly American of somebody to actually put that tag on me by just reading at a headline and not looking at the story. That's a problem American's have: We're dumbed down by the fact that we think the headline is the total story. That's precisely some of the things I like to talk about. I made 'Don't Believe the Hype' twelve years ago to talk about the way Americans take information in. So I can't help it if someone happens to be less intelligent than me.
C.O.: (laughs) When you say the way Americans 'take information in,' I think you're referring more so to the way people misinterpret what they take in and misuse that interpretation, right?
CHUCK: Exactly! Americans like their food fast, but they like their info fast, too. Sometimes you have to read the whole, total picture. We're in a fast food society that wants information to be just as fast, health care to be just as fast and sex to be just as fast. So I can't speak for people who want to fuck their brains up and deal with their ride, and they just want to be satisfied off of a glimpse. the key to Public Enemy is that when you see us, you understand it's going to be special because we've been to six continents. And my discussion, when I deal with other continents, is usually at a higher level than when I deal with America. Americans, largely, are dumb. Which means that we're not trained to actually acknowledge the total picture outside the 2,000-by-3,000 mile box of the United States of America.
C.O.: You were talking about being involved worldwide, and for you a lot of that comes through the Internet, right?
CHUCK: Well, Public Enemy was the first rap group that planted our seeds worldwide. We weren't afraid, way back in the '80s, to go stay in Norway for three or four days, and deal with winters in Europe and summers in Africa. I think that very worldly experience helped us plant the seeds for rap music and hip-hop, not just for us, but for rap music and hip-hop. People like the Roots, Cypress Hill and the Fugees took advantage of that world sound. But...now we tour twenty percent of the time as opposed to seventy percent of the time back in the day, but we make sure that our twenty percent is quality time, because we got things to handle and businesses to take care of.
C.O.: What do you do the other eighty percent of the time?
CHUCK: The eight other things I do.
C.O.: (laughs) Well, what are they?
CHUCK: I'm not going to tell you everything because you'll probably end up printing them all in your article. (laughs)
C.O.: C'mon, Chuck (laughs).
CHUCK: We just started Rapstation.com, which is like ESPN for rap music and hip-hop, and we launched that last week. There's Bringthenoise.com, which is Internet hip-hop radio. We play more rap joints than anyone around the world. I have a show where I play unsigned, independent artists around the planet. We do everything from movie studios...we've got four studios in operation. We've got two Atlanta studios and three Long Island studios, where we do everything from scoring commercials to voice overs. I had to step down from Fox at the beginning of the year because it was time for music. I mean, that's about five different things. I'm finishing up my book, 'Countdown to Armageddon,' which is coming out mid-2000, my second book. So, there's a lot of different things going on, all the time. You know, lots of stuff.
C.O.: Understandably. Just now you mentioned the middle man, and isn't that one of your reasons for getting involved with Internet stuff, because there is no middle man?
CHUCK: Well, there is a middle man, but you have to create the middle man. It doesn't eradicate the middle man, but what it does, is that you create a situation where the middle man has to share more. Business success depends on the naivete of the artist and the naivete of the public, right? And who ends up having all the information is the middle people, in the traditional ways of television, video and record companies. And usually, everyone ends up looking to the middle man for answers and money. So, the artist makes the art and gives it to the middle man, who determines the price and the mechanical structure that it goes to the public in, and the public doesn't know anything about the industry, and the artist doesn't know anything about the process. So, as long as both sides are naive, it kind of balances things out. What the internet does, is that in order to get on the internet, you can't go in with a naive state of mind. You've got to go into it knowing that you could become your own entity and business, and come up with a parallel world alongside the music business, as it exists today. I mean, if there's going to 100 million computers all modemed together around the world, don't you think that if a person wants to get Nas' latest, unreleased track, drop it to their hard drive and then drop in onto their CD burner that costs about $80 and make their own CD, do you really see them not going through that process, and instead going to the store and paying $17?
C.O.: Right. But how many people, now, have access to that?
CHUCK: More and more as we speak. The price of computers comes down. The largest ethnic group of people buying computers is black folk. More Americans have bought computers the last two years than television sets. Twelve years ago, how many cellular phones could you count in the black community. my whole thing is that the technology doesn't look for excuses. They look to set a precedent, and the people follow, regardless, because it's based on convenience. People are going to get their entertainment, especially rap music and hip-hop, where eighty-five percent of the music is underserviced and underexposed.
C.O.: What do you want to be remembered for, Chuck?
CHUCK: I want to be known as someone who actually spoke his mind, knowing that I could make a change for the benefit of people who don't think they can make a change. I can actually say, 'Boom, you can do it,' and you end up doing it, and it makes it better for a hundred-thousand or a million people to think for themselves. I think that's the end result -- if I can get somebody to think for themselves. Whether they agree or disagree, think for yourselves and don't be programmed. Break the programming. That's why I did 'Don't Believe the Hype.' Challenge the information.
